Mayavada Khandana is published in Kannada and Sanskrit PDF Format
Mayavada Khandana, Upadhi Khandana and Prapanchamithyatvanumana Khandana are the 3 treatises in Khandanatraya collections.
In Mayavada Khandana, Acharya Madhwa shows that the Basic foundation of Advaita or Mayavada, i.e the identity of Jiva and Brahman, is baffled with self contradictions.
In Essence, Sruti never, ever, advocates Jiva Brahma Aikya.
Acharya Madhwa’s elegance, in setting aside Jiva Brahma Aikya Vada, in such simple and lucid style, needs to be experienced.
Shall we have a look at that? Then click the Link below and experience it !!!!
SRIMADHVYASA 
dear owner of this website, please make it sure that your site is only for Dvaities… incase if anyone else has objections to our Dvaita matha, they should come with proof and justification and not with “apa shabhads’. Even Narayana panditha charya who was smartha had became madhwa after he was disproved. For now, our only aim is to digest what madhwwa has given to our community. It has already proved by him. no need to prove again. we just need to understand and accept it. if not, please go to next door…
Dear mr.Varenya;
A small correction to your concept-Lord Srimadacharya came here not to give “Sarvamoola” to only Madhvas because there were no Madhvas by then.He came to give the correct interpretation to the “Prasthana traya”which was erroneously conceived by many as many as 21 of them and the followers(the gullible masses).His interpretation which was flawless which can be verified even to this day convinced all the right thinking people and hence he is described as” Trilokyacharyapada” in The Vayustuti by the great Trivikramacharya pandita(Trivikrama panditacharya).We need not hide our admiration for him.Anybody is welcome to understand his thoughts follow and emancipate themselves(have Mokshamarga.if they really are muktiyogyas.).You can not avoid people abusing even GOD at any given point of time.as there will be always Muktyayogyas more of them especially in Kaliyuga. “Sajjanah santu Nirbhayaha” Harekrishna Dr.Venkatesh
1)Sir,
Here I compare three Great Acharyas of Sanathana Hindu dharma …
Adi Shankarachaya :
1) His vision is full India :
He got followers from all four corners of india that can be easily seen from his four amnaya peetham at four corners of india. He defeated in debate,not only asthikas in vada,but also nasthikas like jains and bhudhists.The most difficult thing, very cruial kapalikas also accepted his vada.So,he can be called as Jagath guru.
2) He never said advaita accepted people are superior to others.He never said ,
only advaita leads to salvation or if you follow other path ,it take you to eternal hell.
He just said we are sampradaya vadis.
3)He never blamed other philosophy gurus or its followers.Even though he objected bhudhist view ,he never blamed bhudha.Even very nasthika charvaka was also not blamed by him,only his view point is objected by shankara.That is followed even by his followers.Because of this nature of shankara, no advaithi blame bhudha or charvaka.they just object their philosophy.
4) Shankara never objected his guru govidha bagavath pada vada.He just followed his guru,which is requirement of a vedanthi.
5) He took his mother’s permission to become a sanyasi.He became sanyasi because it is the symbol of sacrifice.And even he wanted to strengthen sanathna dharma,so he came sanyasi.
6)his most of followers were noble brahmins.
7) he never said he is avathar of some one or he never said I am superior to others .But his followers say him to be avathar of shiva.
8) He said to treat all gods are equal,sever said some god is superior to other god.or pray some god and neglect some other god.
this can be easily seen from his panchaitana pooja padhathi.
9) Without shankaracharya sanathana vaidika dharma would have vanished from indian,by this time.Because of his effort sanathana dharma is still there is india.
So,all brahmins of all sects should respect him.He brought unity among brahmins by bringing them under single sidhanta.
10) He united the brahmins.
Ramanujaacharya :
1) His view is mainly tamilnadu and little karnataka.Even in tamil nadu only few follow his philosophy .So,he cannot be called as jagath guru.
2)Even he never said his philosophy is superior to other philosophy or only following his philosophy will lead to salvation.
3) He called shankara as prachanna bhudha,indirectly blaming shankara,the preacher of advaitha philosophy.this is even followed by his followers.That is why his followers don’t respect shankara much.It is because of this ramanuja’s nature his followers won’t respect shankara.
4) He went against this guru yadava preksha,and even thought he will kill him.
He even took sanyasa from no one which is against vedas which says one has to take sanyasa from a guru.But ramanuja says he took sanyasa,but no one guru gave him sanyasa.
5) he din’t even asked his wife’s permission to become sanyasi,and became a sanyasi.He became sanyasi just to show it as a fashion .Otherwise how can he says himself as sanysi and still no guru to him to give sanyasa.
6) Most of his followers were vaishyas or baniyas and not brahmins.He also spent lot of his life time with non-brahmins.
7) I think he said he is avathar of adi shesha. or avathar of lakshmana.
8) He said worshiping vishnu is enough.No need to worship other gods.
9) Even though ,Because of shankara ,sanathana dharma is still there in india.He never thanked shankara for his great job,he just blamed shankara as prachanna bhudha.
10)Because of Ramanuja there is no unity among brahmins in tamil nadu.Iyengars and Iyers always fight among each others.
11) He divided the brahmins.
Madhvacharya :
1) His view is mainly karnataka, even in karnataka only few sects of brahmins follow his philosophy.So,he cannot be called as jagath guru.
2) He said his philosophy is superior to other philosophy.He also said that only following his philosophy will lead to salvation.Following other sects will lead to eternal hell.He also called the one who preach other philosophy is a devil.
3) He called other philosophers as devil.He directly called shankaracharya as manimantha daithya in his book mahabharatha thatparya nirnaya .He says with jealous of bhima sena ( madhva’s previous birth) ,manimantha (shankaracharya ) became shankaracharya and thought wrong philosophy to this world.Such a mean mentality madhva had.
Because of this nature of madhva ,even to day madhva’s never respect shankaracharya, even today madhvas treat shankara as manimantha daithya.This madhva’s ideology is just followed by his followers.
4) He went against his guru achutha preksha,even as a student. He never listened to his guru,while he was teaching.Which is not a required behavior of a vedanthi.
5) Even though his father objected him from becoming sanyasi,rejecting his father’s words ,he became sanyasi.He became sanyasi just because If he become sanyasi then only people will follow him.Other why He wanted to take sanyasa from advaitha sanyasi, as all advaithis are devils?……why because he says he knows every thing from birth so,that he came to this world to preach dvaita….
6) His followers are mostly brahmins.
7) He said he is avathar of vayu deva or he is avathar of hanumantha.He said he is superior to all jeevas. He even said that ,He is the most knowledgeable among all jeevas that no other jeevas have his equal or higher jgnana (knowledge) or shankthi (power).
8) He said to not to treat all gods are equal.If we treat all god are equal (Shiva and vishnus are equal)…we go to eternal hell.He said to treat vishnu as superior to all other gods.
He said to worship all other gods just as dammi gods ,just a representative of vishnu.
9) Even though because of adi shankarachaya sanathana dharma is still there in india,He never thanked shankara for this work.But he blammed shankaracharya in bad words.
10) Beacause of madhva,there is no unity among brahmins in karnataka.
Madhvas and advaithis even fight today for their philosophy or for their culture and there is no unity among brahmins in karnataka .
11) He divied brahmins.
Advaitha destroyed Vedas and divided our Holy Land , Because of Advaitha we lost Kashmir and famous temples in Kashmir.
Very Good Srivatsa, I m proud of you:)
What you said in above is 100% correct. Our Dwita is the only Dharma protected Vedas not other Dharmas.
Most of Srivatsa’s utterings are out of half-baked/cooked knowledge and by following answers it reveals itself:
Adi Sankaracharya:
1. Christianity & Islam has multifold followers throughout the world. Hence, just by number of followers the supremacy of one faith cannot be established. Jains and Buddhists were not defeated by Shankaracharya but these faiths have been set to defeat in Second Pada of the second Adhyaya of the Brahma Sutras called Samaya (Faith) Pada by Lord Vedvyasa himself. He should know that only Charvaka or his likes are called nastikas in Shastras and not Jains or Buddhists. He can be called as Mithya Jagadguru. When Jagat itself is not there then where is Jagarguru?
2. He cannot say that advaitha accepted people are superior because there is no hierarchy in advaitha. All are one. If Srivthsa says Shankaracharya is superior to Srivathsa then he is following dwaitha whether he likes or not. What is Sampradaya Vadis? Is Sampradaya Satya or Mithya? If Satya means advaith gone because there are two Satyas.. If Mithya then he is Mithya Sampradaya Vadi.
3. Nothing they can blame because all are one. He gave the Buddhism in new bottle that’s all. There is no difference between Buddha’s Shoonya & Advaith’s Brahma because both are nirguna, nirvisesa. Even Charvakas faith has been condemned in Brahma Sutra only as stated above.
4. If he has just followed his Guru, then call his Siddhantha as his Guru’s not of Shankaracharya.
5. He has not read Shankara Vijjaya which says Shankara while crossing river the Janivara or yagnopaveetha slipped and he assumed sanyasa. Whereas it is great Madhvacharya who took the permission of both mother & father and got Sanyasa by following all vidhis.
6. What do you mean by noble Brahmans? Are there Brahmans who are not noble? You say Madhvacharya divided Brahmins but you yourself or according to you Sankara divided Brahmins.
7. He cannot say his is avathara of some one because as per advaith there is no body except brahman.
8. If there is no hierarchy of Gods, then whenever the Devatas face any trouble all Devatas go to Indra and Indra goes along with them to Brahma and Brahma goes to Narayana for final solution. Why? Entire Mahabharatha and Ramayana or Bhagavatha stand as a proof to these hierarchy of Devatas and supremacy of Narayana. We cannot refute it just without any proof.
9. The actual Sanathan Dharma was revived by Madhvacharya only. Many of the Dharmas were lost since people were mesmerised as God. And people began thinking if we are God then why should we do Dharma? And we are not Real Beings to do any Dharma which is not also real. Perofrmance is also not real. Even if we do not perform, non-performance is also not real. If we get any fruit for any dharma that fruit is also not real. First of all Dharma should be real to give us any fruit. So if we go on extending it is endless. For the sake of brevity I am stopping.
10. Unity of Brahmins is a contradiction as already told in noble or ignoble division. Even bouddhas were also Brahmins. Why did he left out them?
Ramanujacharya:
1. This refutation is already answered above.
2. He has clearly stated you follow the faith which is closer to me and not advaitha.
3. He just called but great Madhvacharya demonstrated how Sankara is prachhanna Buddha.
4. This is true in case of Sankara also.
5. You say that he went against his guru yadavapreksha. and now say no guru which is a straight contradiction.
6. When all or one, why the Advaith is discriminating between Vaishyas, baniyas and non-Brahmins. We should appreciate Ramanuja for not observing casteic differences.
7. Because he follows semi-dwaitha philosophy, the concept of avathara to some extent is acceptable.
8. Atleast this principle is the plain meaning of one Bhagavata Shloka.
9. He knew it was not Sankara who defeated Buddhism but one Sri Kumarila Bhatta with his brother Narayana Bhatta who were the first to defeat Buddhism.
10. There is no need to fight if atleast the sect belonging to Sankara think all is one.
11. As brought out previously, any philosophy should not be based for a particular caste as Brahmins or whatever it be. It should be for entire universe as is madhva siddhantha.
Madvacharya:
1. This view has already been refuted and Madhvacharya is rightly called as Saya Jagatguru.
2. He never said it is his philosophy. He only said that this is the Philosophy as per the Shruthis and Smritis and obviously it is superior. He never called other philosophy as devil. In Bhagavadgita Lord Krishna himself calls that who say Jagat is not Guru that Siddhantha is Asuri and they will not reach me but go to eternal hell Mam apprapraiva Kounteya tato yaantyadhamam Gathim” this is the quotation of Geetha.
3. He has never called Sankara as Manimantha. He said who propagate the philosophy as “I am the God” must naturally be a devil. And according to you Sankara followed his Guru means, his Guru has propagated this philosophy and not Sankara. Then he will be Manimantha And one should know that Guru of Sankara was Goudapaada and not govidha bhagavatpada as told by Srivathsa.
4. He never went against his Guru. When the first Advaitha book was beginning to be taught to him, he revealed 32 mistakes in the first stanza of the book called “ishtasiddhi” and asked his Guru to first clarify these mistakes which he was unable to do and so he became angry. Later on Madhvacharya became his most beloved disciple. And it is always welcome in Vedantha to have tatvic differences.
5. Though first his father objected, finally both mother & father give acceptance for his Sanyasa. It is natural even now for any father or mother to give acceptance for sanyasa of their son. Naturally people even now have great regards, respects for whatever sanyasis say. He has not said anywhere that he knows everything by birth.
6. Even for Raghavendra Swamiji, the nth disciple’s disciple of great Madhvacharya, disciples are there from all castes. Madhva Siddhantha is for entire world and not for any particular sect since he says “udaara charitaanaantu Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam”.
7. He boldly declared during his life time that he was the avatara of Vayu and no body challenged him because all were convinced with his knowledge and ability to interpret Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmasutras, Puranas, Vyakaranas, Tarkas, Mimamsa, Nirukta, etc. He never said that he has super shakthi. He only said that he knows because of Prasada of Vyasa.
8. As already clearly illustrated above the hierarchy of Gods is the gist of entire Sruthi & Smritis including Bhagavadgeetha. He did not say to worship all Devatas as dammi (?) Gods but said that they have to be worshipped as the family of the God.
9. As already told, the Sanathana Dharma is not there because of Sankara.
10. Only for principles the fight is there and not humanly. Principle differences are welcome even in politics today. Even in Advaitha there are so many cults who are fighting like Eka Jeeva Vaada, Bahu Jeeva Vaada, etc. It cannot be taken as break of Unity. And Madhva Charya did not advocate fight among Brahmins or any cult for that matter to say that because of Madhva there is no Unity.
11. Again division of Brahmins was not done by Madhva. He simply preached the real tatva and some of the Advaitis and Vishistaadwaithis accepted and followed him who are called as Madhvas. If all of them accepted then there was no question of Division. He did not form separate cult called as Madhvas. It is Advaitins or Vishistaadvaithis who agreed and followed his principles came to be called as Madhvas.
Hence, don’t be red eyed in seeing the things please.
Bhagavanta is only one. People call god by different names.
LIFE begins with DWAITA and as you move forward get translated in to ADVAITA. This needs ANUBHUTI i.e experential inner knowledge.
GOD is nirguna, niraka and the ultimate TRUTH. Different people worship him with different names.
No one live without both.
Respect all.
I am getting surprised to see such useless talk. Respecting others is to be done by all educated people otherwise they are no different from ANIMAL.
Bharat / INDIA do not follow POLYTHEISM, rather it is PLURALIST. We should do such a work that takes us near to GOD by making BHAKTI and PREMA.
None of these or such criticism takes us near to GOD. If you insult others or other god you are certainly INSULTING your OWN GOD.
Leave all such nonsense talks and be sensible.
JAI SHRI RAM
With due respect I beg to differ from your opinion. It is your opinion that south meets north. Difference is concurrence.. Let us not speak like politicians.. Let us accept the facts. You are saying Advaita is ultimate… Dwaita in the end culminates with advaita… This is a dream un-accomplished. Dwaita and advaita will never go together. They are poles apart.
1. You say world is mithya in colored way… Ultimately mithya boils down to illusion. saying world is unreal. Your assertion of world as mithya goest against the science and experience. If you say world is unreal… scientific community laughs. It is totally against and contradictory to our experience. Dwaita accepts the reality of the world. Acharya madwaya says this realistic world has to taken in the right way… GEtting attached to it leads to hell which is real. Performing the actions and using our boy in detached mode leads to advancement. Whereas advaita sees this world as unreal…. just a figment of imagination… With this approach,,, what can we achieve by fantasies… The world, its experience, all course of action is just a meaningless fultile experience as per Advaita. This can never be experienced as such.
2. Advaita says Jeeva is a fiction… In reality nothing like jeeva exists… Its says everything is brahman…. resulting to your saying that Jeeva is brahman… Dwaitha fears at this claim… How can a beggar become Princess. How can a virus/ small being become elephant.. This is just nothing but a unachievable dream… no way a filty small soul become brahma. Acharya madwa says that Jeeva at the best can become a small devotee of Lord. He is too become to even comprehend.. forget of becoming himself.
3. No way dwaita and advaita meets… both moves in opposite direction…
4. Let us be fare… you follow your way… you are responsible for your thoughts and actions. You will move to your destiny. We are responsible for our thoughts… We love to remain as a small devotee of the Lord.. We never ever aspire to become Lord himself. Beggar cannot become president. It is just a fantasy..
Hence don’t speak like politician.. AFter all you never speak real. You say everything is illusion..
So let us not quarrel… Let us beg to differ… You becoming brahman is your aspiration…
We love to be lords devotee for ever.
Hope you understand the difference with optimism..
But sure… You people will never accept ..
So let us sadhana continue.
We have no regrets, when we differ with you
Dear Shrivatsa, according to scriptures, when the people in this world were killing animals so much, Lord Hari soared as Buddha just to remove that, people have the reasons that it is recommended in Vedas and that’s why they practiced animal killing, so Buddha propounded Vedas are false and told them to practice ahimsa,
Secondly Shankara ( Lord Shiva) appeared on the order of lord Krishna, and lord Krishna ordered to establish Vedas back and not to preach the complete understanding of Krishna but only partial understanding that is up to, his bodily effulgence ( Brahman), Because in Kali yuga people are so much degraded that they cannot come to the understanding of the supreme personality of Godhead sri Krishna at once, so the lord had to send Sri Ramanujacharya (expansion of Balaram), to establish little higher philosophy about the supreme Lord Hari and then the lord sent Sri Madhvacharya ( the incarnation of Hanuman ji, it is to be known that Hanuman or Bhima is not only strengthy bodily but in vaishnavism also they are similarly strengthy), Madhvacharya was ordered by the lord personally before he descended in this earth to fulfill the lord Krishna’s desire to strongly establish vaishnavism and destroy the mayavadism, and that is what he did, simply he followed the orders of the supreme Lord. During Madhvacharya’s time bhakti was limited only to brahmanas.
Later on the supreme Lord Sri Krishna has to personally come to inaugurate the Sankirtan movement ( the Hare Krishna Movement) to freely distribute the Krishna bhakti to everyone and that had happened also, Srila Prabhupada had established Iskcon temple centers throughout the world to freely distribute the vaishnavism which had for the strong foundation during Madhvacharya’s time. Even lord Chaitanya also told, “Mayavada Bhasya sunilo haya sarva nasha” which meant that if anyone happens to hear about mayavada or Shankara’s philosophy his spiritual life is doomed.
So everything had happened according to the will of lord Sri Krishna and we common men have no authority to speak rebuking to such great personality like Sri Madhvacharya, of you blaspheme such great person, whose glories are unlimited and whose qualities and activities are inconceivable by materially contaminated men like us, we are simply eating time and carrying a loads of sin.
It is said in srimad Bhagavatam that
Krishnavarnam tvishakrsnam
Sangopangastra parshadam
Yagnaih sankirtanah prayair
Yajantih sumedasah
intelligent people in Kali Yuga worship lord Sri Krishna in his golden form ( Gauranga or lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) who is surrounded by his associates and devotees, he delivers everyone simply by instructing everyone for chanting the holy names of Krishna without any discrimination.
And it is mentioned as yajantih sumedasah, only intelligent people can perform this process of Krishna Sankirtana yajna, unintelligent fools only aspire and adore for mayavadis and simply blaspheme vaishnavas, who are like the pearls among the pebbles known as mayavadis or shankarites.
Mayavadis by blaspheming vaishnavas simply achieve bad karuna and have to suffer in perilous hell for many many life time.
Hare Krishna
So everything happens according
Hare Krishna!! I was born in a Brahmin Smartha family and always under an illusion for a long long time thinking ‘I AM GOD’ . After realizing this is absolute stupidity, I became an ardent follower of Iskcon teachings. Like a fool, I got carried away to their teachings which say Krishna and Radha could not bear seeing people’s sorrow in Kali Yuga and hence incarnated as Chaitanya Maha Prabhu. I was delusional to believe their other teaching that says Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead and superior to Vishnu.
I am eternally thankful to erudite Madhwa scholars like Bannanje Govindacharya and Keshav Rao Tadipatri who took me out of this ignorance and gave the true knowledge as given by Madhvacharyaru. I have the below request to ISKCON followers –
1. You are doing a terrible sin by proclaiming Krishna form is superior to other forms of GOD. This is blasphemous. You are sprinting towards HELL by doing this.
2. Radha is a fictional character introduced by a poet. You are taking this for real and claim Krishna feels more close to Radha than Rukmini(Lakshmi)
3. To claim Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is an incarnation of Krishna is blasphemy. This is not as per Shastra. Nowhere in Bhagavata it is mentioned Krishna will appear as Chaitanya. HIS next incarnation is Kalki avatar and that will be some 4,20,000 years from now
Hell is guaranteed for this kind of blasphemy against great Vaishnava acharyas like Madhwa and Ramanuja
Clearly shows Srivathsa is a follower of ShankarachArya!
Get the facts right!
For advaithis hari is chaitanya…(supreme consciousness)….(can be compared to Phd level)
For dvaithis hari means lakshmi’s MALE husbend…just like humans…(just like LKG level)…
This it self shows the difference between advitha and dvaitha..
Advaitha ,just cannot be compared to dvaitha…
Today only I say this site due to e-mail of Sumadhwaseva e-mail group. I will answer all the queries/objections of Srivathsa one by one by the grace of our Gurus, Vayu & Hari and show whatever objection srivathsa has expressed here is due to his ignorance.
1. Let him show the proof where science have proved there is no jada-jada bheda. Even in Haridasa kirtanas it is told paramatma muttalu loha suvarna. Prakritika means it undergoes change. If science can convert silver into Gold why can’t it convert iron or soil into gold and solve the gold problem which is universal and bring down its cost. If there is no jada-jada bheda let Srivathsa eat mud instead of rice or wheat and solve food problem.
2. Even according to Madhva Siddhantha, prakrutika gunas are not the guna of the Atma or jeeva. He has misread or misinformed that prakrutika guna are jeevas gunas. This answeres his dog budhi also.
3. What he means by Jath is truth? 5 bhedas are true and it can never be false which we can see in our own eyes. Science has proved Blood group is different from one person to another person, DNA is different, biometrics are different, based on these the World is running smoothly. If we accept Srivathsa’s version, world cannot function.
4. Mr Srivathsa, whether you accept there is any difference between what you yourself have told in your own words Sat(always present), chit (consciousness), ananda (bliss)? Are these are not Gunas? If these are Gunas, then how can Brahma be Nirguna? Always present-is it not virtue of existence? – where to exist? when to exist? that means to exist we require place i.e. Jagat or Space which should be real for brahman to exist and when means time which should also exist. If time, place and brahman exist there are three things. Then where is the question of Advaitha? Coming to Ananda, experience of bliss, wherein you have stated ….when you experience? that means there should be one to experience? If he merges with brahman who will experience) Hence you or I or any other person or persons should be there to experience that eternal bliss – which means persons should really exist. This is the case with consciousness also. So when Brahman, persons, place, time are all real, where is the question of Advaitha which says only Brahman is real?
5. Milk will not become curd by itself. Some chetana should mix curd and milk then it will transform into curd. This is accepted in dwaitha that prakrutik items are always subject to change (VIkara). But in advaith there is no chetana except brahman to mix, there are no milk and curd separately then how will it happen? Your perception of Milk & Curd are difference jadas is itself wrong. only milk can be converted into jada. Without milk, curd cannot be manufactured-likewise, butter, ghee, etc.
6. We cant understand if dress perishes how can there not be jada-jada bheda. every prakrutik item is perishable including iron. it does not establish that there is no jada-jada bheda.
7. With what proof do you say that thumb impression in janmas are different? You must give some proof. If you accept Janma, then you should accept the world as real and chetanas are real-again Advaitha is gone.
8. That is what dvaita will establish that there is difference between one and another in the same tree, leaves are different. the same leaf becomes yellow, red, etc., which is as per principle of dwaitha that prakrut items are subject to change. So change is real. If you accept this then also advait is gone.
9. Again you cannot establish karma, physical appearance changes from janma to janma. Bhagavadgita says yo yat shraddhaha sa eva saha which means it is not subject to change. which means there are two types of Gunas according to Krishna. One is Swaroopa Guna & another is prakrut Guna. While prakrut Guna has the effect on the prakrit items like body which is subject to change and other jadas, Swaroopa Guna is the virtue of Jeeva only. please understand the purport of srutis & smritis before coming to any conclusion as per your buddhi.
10. Your argument of jeeva becoming ant, elephant, changes in body in the same life are of dvaitha only. Since jeeva’s size is atom, it can fit into any body from bacteria to elephant or demonic bodies also. It will not undergo any change and that is why it is called swaroopa. In Advait only it will not hold good if it says it is infinite and covers whole world, how can it become ant which means it undergoes vikara?
Now we come to very important part of the argument wherein you say because of IGNORANCE brahman becomes Atman. Now you tell me from where and to whom ignorance came. Ignorance comes to Brahman? How & why? When the Vedas call him as prajgnam brahman as quoted by you, how he can have ignorance. And about what ignorance when there is nothing except Brahman as per Advaitha. That is what Dvaita says that ignorance cannot happen to Brahman who is Sarvajna that means who knows everything. And there is no second item or person in advait to have ignorance and ignorance about any item. If Brahman only gets ignorance, who is there to cure that ignorance? In dwaita, jeeva is having ignorance and Sarvajna Brahman is there to cure that ignorance. If Brahman himself has the ignorance then how can he or it be God?
11. Trividha jeevas are told by Lord Srikrishna in Bhagavadgita and dvaita just follows that. There is nothing like practicability. Why not practical? Duryodhana from the beginning he was bad and could not be changed despite teachings by Dhritarashtra his own father, Vidura his uncle, Maitreya-a Rishi, Bhishma, Drona, Ashvatthama, and Lord Krishna himself. Is this not the sufficient proof? Like this there are infinite no. of instances are there in Ramayan & Mahabharat which are like solved examples for what is stated in Veda and therefore they are called Pancham Veda which were written & directed by Sarvajgna Ved Vyasa avatara of Narayan. Your statement of bad person becoming good or vice-versa is again you are confusing with prakrut gunas which change in every person and not swaroopa guna. Three types of Jeevas are outlined clearly in Gita and dvaitha just follows it.
12. There are several meaning to the lines quoted by you from mandukya Upanishad. It is not verse. I will tell you the plain meaning. It means if world is created by magic then it would disappear without any doubt. Since it is not disappearing it is not created by magic. It is true creation of God who is advait (no one equal to or more than the God). If it is created out of illusion by anybody, it would have disappeared. Hence the world is Satya and MadhvaCharya the great is Satya Jagadruru and Shankaracharya is Mithya Jagadguru.
13. You have neither understood Advaith in its proper perception. It does not say hari is supreme and having supreme knowledge. If it says that then supreme quality and supreme knowledge are Gunas and Brahman cannot be Nirguna as per advait. You say Pragnanam Brahma is one of the strong pillars of advaitha. You ask whether this Guna of Pragnanam Brahma is true or false(Mithya). According to Advaith it is also falst (Mithya). The advaith is built of false pillars which do not stand test of intelligence. Regarding Gender, in Vedas Brahman is referred in both genders of male & also neutral. Supreme Lord Sri Hari has taken even female form also many times-that is the quality of Brahman. He should be able to take any form. Hence this should not be made a big issue. Supremity will come only when there are multiple entities. If only one entity is there how the word supreme will be applicable since it is a comparative superlative degree – compared to what it is supreme?
14. Level is there only in dvaitha philosophy. Hence the dvaitha has given him the highest level and Phd is nothing before that. Advaith has given Brahman no form, no attributes no level-when only one is there what level can be given – he will be the head and sweeper too.
15. you have misunderstood dvaitha. It never says Brahman & jgnana of Brahma are different. Swarupa is the concept of dvaitha only and it says brahma, his body, knowledge, attributes, virtues are all swaroopa of Brahman. And for his info Mayavada Khandana does not begin with brahman & brahma Jgnana are different. It is a wrong notion. It begins with “Vimatam anarambhaniyam anyatha pratipadakatvat yadittham tat tatha yatha sampratipannam”. Hence the beginning is not wrong.
16. Manimantha daithya’s avatara is Shankaracharya. It is a fact. When the fact is told, how it can be mean? Is it mean to tell the fact that Bin laden is a terrorist?
17. You say that advaitha is close to reality where as advaitha says nothing is real then where is the question of close to reality. You say shiva has to bless himself. But why he has to bless himself? What for? What is the benefit of bless? no answers for these questions can be given in Advaitha. You say his word is anandamayam. You ask advaitins whether Brahman has ananda. It can’t because it is an attribute or virtue (i.e. Guna) and brahman is nirguna.
18. Then you have told we will say shivoham in advaitha not as parvathi pathi and shiva means supreme knowledge & consciousness. As already told none of these attribrutes are practicable in advaitha.
Finally you please study either dwaitha or advaitha completely before commenting. Don’t assume things and talk.
Thank you and god bless you (which can’t be told in advaitha)
Padmanabha
Mr.Padmanabh have replied to the observations as below:
Today only I say this site due to e-mail of Sumadhwaseva e-mail group. I will answer all the queries/objections of Srivathsa one by one by the grace of our Gurus, Vayu & Hari and show whatever objection srivathsa has expressed here is due to his ignorance.
1. Let him show the proof where science have proved there is no jada-jada bheda. Even in Haridasa kirtanas it is told paramatma muttalu loha suvarna. Prakritika means it undergoes change. If science can convert silver into Gold why can’t it convert iron or soil into gold and solve the gold problem which is universal and bring down its cost. If there is no jada-jada bheda let Srivathsa eat mud instead of rice or wheat and solve food problem.
2. Even according to Madhva Siddhantha, prakrutika gunas are not the guna of the Atma or jeeva. He has misread or misinformed that prakrutika guna are jeevas gunas. This answeres his dog budhi also.
3. What he means by Jath is truth? 5 bhedas are true and it can never be false which we can see in our own eyes. Science has proved Blood group is different from one person to another person, DNA is different, biometrics are different, based on these the World is running smoothly. If we accept Srivathsa’s version, world cannot function.
4. Mr Srivathsa, whether you accept there is any difference between what you yourself have told in your own words Sat(always present), chit (consciousness), ananda (bliss)? Are these are not Gunas? If these are Gunas, then how can Brahma be Nirguna? Always present-is it not virtue of existence? – where to exist? when to exist? that means to exist we require place i.e. Jagat or Space which should be real for brahman to exist and when means time which should also exist. If time, place and brahman exist there are three things. Then where is the question of Advaitha? Coming to Ananda, experience of bliss, wherein you have stated ….when you experience? that means there should be one to experience? If he merges with brahman who will experience) Hence you or I or any other person or persons should be there to experience that eternal bliss – which means persons should really exist. This is the case with consciousness also. So when Brahman, persons, place, time are all real, where is the question of Advaitha which says only Brahman is real?
5. Milk will not become curd by itself. Some chetana should mix curd and milk then it will transform into curd. This is accepted in dwaitha that prakrutik items are always subject to change (VIkara). But in advaith there is no chetana except brahman to mix, there are no milk and curd separately then how will it happen? Your perception of Milk & Curd are difference jadas is itself wrong. only milk can be converted into jada. Without milk, curd cannot be manufactured-likewise, butter, ghee, etc.
6. We cant understand if dress perishes how can there not be jada-jada bheda. every prakrutik item is perishable including iron. it does not establish that there is no jada-jada bheda.
7. With what proof do you say that thumb impression in janmas are different? You must give some proof. If you accept Janma, then you should accept the world as real and chetanas are real-again Advaitha is gone.
8. That is what dvaita will establish that there is difference between one and another in the same tree, leaves are different. the same leaf becomes yellow, red, etc., which is as per principle of dwaitha that prakrut items are subject to change. So change is real. If you accept this then also advait is gone.
9. Again you cannot establish karma, physical appearance changes from janma to janma. Bhagavadgita says yo yat shraddhaha sa eva saha which means it is not subject to change. which means there are two types of Gunas according to Krishna. One is Swaroopa Guna & another is prakrut Guna. While prakrut Guna has the effect on the prakrit items like body which is subject to change and other jadas, Swaroopa Guna is the virtue of Jeeva only. please understand the purport of srutis & smritis before coming to any conclusion as per your buddhi.
10. Your argument of jeeva becoming ant, elephant, changes in body in the same life are of dvaitha only. Since jeeva’s size is atom, it can fit into any body from bacteria to elephant or demonic bodies also. It will not undergo any change and that is why it is called swaroopa. In Advait only it will not hold good if it says it is infinite and covers whole world, how can it become ant which means it undergoes vikara?
Now we come to very important part of the argument wherein you say because of IGNORANCE brahman becomes Atman. Now you tell me from where and to whom ignorance came. Ignorance comes to Brahman? How & why? When the Vedas call him as prajgnam brahman as quoted by you, how he can have ignorance. And about what ignorance when there is nothing except Brahman as per Advaitha. That is what Dvaita says that ignorance cannot happen to Brahman who is Sarvajna that means who knows everything. And there is no second item or person in advait to have ignorance and ignorance about any item. If Brahman only gets ignorance, who is there to cure that ignorance? In dwaita, jeeva is having ignorance and Sarvajna Brahman is there to cure that ignorance. If Brahman himself has the ignorance then how can he or it be God?
11. Trividha jeevas are told by Lord Srikrishna in Bhagavadgita and dvaita just follows that. There is nothing like practicability. Why not practical? Duryodhana from the beginning he was bad and could not be changed despite teachings by Dhritarashtra his own father, Vidura his uncle, Maitreya-a Rishi, Bhishma, Drona, Ashvatthama, and Lord Krishna himself. Is this not the sufficient proof? Like this there are infinite no. of instances are there in Ramayan & Mahabharat which are like solved examples for what is stated in Veda and therefore they are called Pancham Veda which were written & directed by Sarvajgna Ved Vyasa avatara of Narayan. Your statement of bad person becoming good or vice-versa is again you are confusing with prakrut gunas which change in every person and not swaroopa guna. Three types of Jeevas are outlined clearly in Gita and dvaitha just follows it.
12. There are several meaning to the lines quoted by you from mandukya Upanishad. It is not verse. I will tell you the plain meaning. It means if world is created by magic then it would disappear without any doubt. Since it is not disappearing it is not created by magic. It is true creation of God who is advait (no one equal to or more than the God). If it is created out of illusion by anybody, it would have disappeared. Hence the world is Satya and MadhvaCharya the great is Satya Jagadruru and Shankaracharya is Mithya Jagadguru.
13. You have neither understood Advaith in its proper perception. It does not say hari is supreme and having supreme knowledge. If it says that then supreme quality and supreme knowledge are Gunas and Brahman cannot be Nirguna as per advait. You say Pragnanam Brahma is one of the strong pillars of advaitha. You ask whether this Guna of Pragnanam Brahma is true or false(Mithya). According to Advaith it is also falst (Mithya). The advaith is built of false pillars which do not stand test of intelligence. Regarding Gender, in Vedas Brahman is referred in both genders of male & also neutral. Supreme Lord Sri Hari has taken even female form also many times-that is the quality of Brahman. He should be able to take any form. Hence this should not be made a big issue. Supremity will come only when there are multiple entities. If only one entity is there how the word supreme will be applicable since it is a comparative superlative degree – compared to what it is supreme?
14. Level is there only in dvaitha philosophy. Hence the dvaitha has given him the highest level and Phd is nothing before that. Advaith has given Brahman no form, no attributes no level-when only one is there what level can be given – he will be the head and sweeper too.
15. you have misunderstood dvaitha. It never says Brahman & jgnana of Brahma are different. Swarupa is the concept of dvaitha only and it says brahma, his body, knowledge, attributes, virtues are all swaroopa of Brahman. And for his info Mayavada Khandana does not begin with brahman & brahma Jgnana are different. It is a wrong notion. It begins with “Vimatam anarambhaniyam anyatha pratipadakatvat yadittham tat tatha yatha sampratipannam”. Hence the beginning is not wrong.
16. Manimantha daithya’s avatara is Shankaracharya. It is a fact. When the fact is told, how it can be mean? Is it mean to tell the fact that Bin laden is a terrorist?
17. You say that advaitha is close to reality where as advaitha says nothing is real then where is the question of close to reality. You say shiva has to bless himself. But why he has to bless himself? What for? What is the benefit of bless? no answers for these questions can be given in Advaitha. You say his word is anandamayam. You ask advaitins whether Brahman has ananda. It can’t because it is an attribute or virtue (i.e. Guna) and brahman is nirguna.
18. Then you have told we will say shivoham in advaitha not as parvathi pathi and shiva means supreme knowledge & consciousness. As already told none of these attribrutes are practicable in advaitha.
Finally you please study either dwaitha or advaitha completely before commenting. Don’t assume things and talk.
Thank you and god bless you (which can’t be told in advaitha)
Regards
Adarsh
In advaitha ,hari is supreme consciousness…pragjanana….
So,there is no question of someone going against that pragnana (supreme consciousness) or hating that brahman (who hates supreme consciousness first of all?????)right???…..
As it is supreme knowledge..there is no question of malu-kilu (higher or lower )..in it…and it is there inside all of us as over self (in the form of supreme consciousness)…..
that is why advaithis just say pragnanam brahma…which is considered as one of the four strong pillars of advaitha
that is why advaithis call brahman as IT NOT HE…(there is no personification of brahman in advaitha)..
But in dvaitha hari means lakshmi’s husbend..who is human like male…who is different from us..
that is why they say,there are some people(tamasa jeevi) ,who hates hari ,just like some one hates some one…
As hari is human like ,,there is melu-kilu (higher and lower )….in dvaitha….that is why they say hari sarvottama(one of the main vakhya of dvaita)…
Which itself shows that dvaith’s don’t know what is hari is…
According to dvaithis hari is lakshmi’s husbend…human like….
that is why most of dvaithis call brahman as HE NOT IT…BECAUSE ACCORDING DVAITHI HARI IS MALE ..AND ALSO HUMAN..NOT SUPREME CONSCIOUSNESS…
THIS IS JUST CHILDISH…
Dvaitha is not only childish..but also…they destroying vaidika dharma being inside sanathana dharma..just like other religions people destroying sanathama dharma from out side…
Advaitha destroyed Vedas and introduced demon rules Hence Great Philosopher Basavanna in 12th Century condemned Advaitha and started Veerashaiva Dharma.
Advaita is scrap. First of all why advaita siddhanta tries to prove something as non-existent when it actually exists? That itself proves that the siddhanta is wrong.
After Shankaracharya why no one is popular by following advaita? In dvaita we have Raghavendra swamy. Did anyone reach that level by following advaita?
If jagath is mithya, then your guru becomes mithya jagadguru. Very simple right?
Please tell the meaning of this verse from mandukhya upanishad…In dvaitha point of view…..Sir,here I mainly required is vakhyartha…..
“prapanco yadi vidyeta nevarteta nashamshhayaH |
Maayaamaatram idam Dwaitam
Advaitam paramaarthataH || ”
“ vikalpo vinivarteta kalpito yadi kenacit |
If you are interested in Advaita Philosophy you follow it and it is your wish. I was born to Tamil Iyer family(basically Advaiti) but later due to some incidents in my life with Raghavendra Swamy Blessings i(we) follow GREAT and TRUE DWAITA Philosophy and it is my wish.
Don’t spoil beauty of this website by your comments , I noticed Acharaya Srinivasa Rao already provided enough answers and you are not capable of understanding those. So now better think about how to protect Vedas (it is only existing now in South India).See the work done by Acharya Sreenivasa Rao he has posted all Sarvmoola Granthas of Madhwa Muni in both Kannada and Sanskrit and he is helping lot of people like me to know more about DWAITA philosopy over Internet and it is very helpful for this generation , He is protecting Vedas for future Generation as well. You also try to protect Vedas like Sreenivasa Rao instead of wasting time by entering our(DWAITA) website and commenting which is irrelevant to you.
Don’t say I am entering dvaitha website and commenting …something irrelevant……
I am basically commenting against mayavada Khandana….Which is about something Against advaitha..sidhanta…..
Madhva call shankaracharya as manimantha daithaya…and even madhvas (Narayana pandithacharya) call shankaracharya as Widow’s son(You got its meaning!!!!!)…….
If you doubt about me…Please go through this site….
http://srinivasa-kalyana.blogspot.in/2012/05/manimanjari-of-sri-naryana.html
When such is the mean mentality of madhvacharya….why should not I comment against it….?????????
Reply Must….
Thank you for giving me beautifull URL – http://srinivasa-kalyana.blogspot.in/2012/05/manimanjari-of-sri-naryana.html….I was searching for this and i got it today with the grace of our Madhwa Muni:):):)
Our intention should be only protecting our Vedas to our future generation and our community…This site is our Temple .
In the very beginning of mayavada khandana,…..
Madhvacharya say that brahman and brahma jgnana are different.He says,as brahma jgnana is different from brahma,It is false,as everything else other than brahma is false in advaitha.So,the advaitha thattva is false he says.
So, he says it is waste to learn advaitha.
For this advaithi’s answer,
Pragnanam brahma (Brahman is knowledge) a mahavakhya says,Brahma and brahman jgnana are not different ,but brahma jgnana is very swarupa of brahman.
So,one cannot differentiate between brahman and brahma jgnana.Brahma and brahma jgnana are one and same.
So,there is no question of saying brahma is true,and brahma jgnana (advaitha tattva) is false.
So, the vary beginning of mayavada khandana is wrong…….
what you say for this?
If Brahma is Jgnanatmataka, then he cannot be anirvachaniya….
Yes,brahman is jgnana.That jgnana is Sat-chit-ananda,which is anirvachaniya…or cannot be expressible in words.
So,brahma is jgnanatmaka at the same time anirvachaniya.
But that Brahma jgnana is not different from brahma,as said by madhvacharya.
1)ok….forget science….let us take you yourself given local example
Milk….it is one jada,curd is another jada,,,,they have different prakruthika guna…..if milk and curd are different by absolute as said by madhvacharya….milk should never become curd…..
but milk…become curd,ghee,butter milk…etc…here the prakruthika gunas of milk (jada)changes to the prakruthika gunas of ghee,curd etc….hence…there cannot be jada-jada beda by absolute as said by madhvacharya…
2)dress…perishes by time(kumbaagutthade)….here dress looses its prakruthika guna bala (strength)…by time…so strength is not guna of jada…
3)when you burn your dress,the dress looses all its prakruthika gunas like colour,smoothness and become ashe,if you go on thinking like that…then there is no jada-jada beda…….as jada’s prakruthika guna changes…
so what is the guna of jada…which makes it different from other jada,,,by absolute?
if jada-jada beda is absolute as said by madhvacharya prakruthika gunas of jada should never change as,he says prakruthika gunas of jada are of it’s own swarupa…and it will never change…
3)one person having a thumb print in one janma,will have another thum print in another janma…so there are not athman’s attribute…. one leave of the same tree…will not be like that…after a day…it will be grown old like big in size,change colour to yellow…etc….so there are not the gunas of jaga…if you go in thinking like that…a jada will be different from it self after a period of time….so quality changes with time…
4) similary kama,physical appearance,thinking changes from janma to janma ..so there are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…so prakruthika gunas like rajasa,tamasa,sathvika are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…..
what you say for this sir?
ಚಾತುರ್ವಣ್ಯಂ ಮಯಾ ಸೃಷ್ಟಂ ಗುಣಕರ್ಮವಿಭಾಗಶಃ।
ತಸ್ಯ ಕರ್ತಾರಮಪಿ ಮಾಂ ವಿದ್ಧ್ಯಕರ್ತಾರಮವ್ಯಯಮ್॥ 13॥
ಅಹಮೇವ ಹಿ ಕರ್ತೇತ್ಯಾಹ ಚಾತುರ್ವರ್ಣ್ಯಮಿತಿ । ಚತುರ್ವರ್ಣಸಮುದಾಯಃ। ಸಾತ್ತ್ವಿಕೋ ಬಾಹ್ಮಣಃ। ಸಾತ್ವಿಕ ರಾಜಸಃ ಕ್ಷತ್ರಿಯಃ। ರಾಜಸತಾಮಸೋ ವೈಶ್ಯಃ। ತಾಮಸಃ ಶೂದ್ರ ಇತಿ ಗುಣವಿಭಾಗಃ।
ಚಾತುರ್ವರ್ಣ್ಯಮ್ ಇತ್ಯಸ್ಯ ಸಙ್ಗತಿಂ ಸೂಚಯಂಸ್ತಾತ್ಪರ್ಯಾಹ — ಅಹಮೇವ ಹೀತಿ॥ ಯಸ್ಮಾದಹಮೇವ ಚಾತುರ್ವರ್ಣ್ಯಸ್ಯ ಕರ್ತಾ, ತ್ರೈವಿದ್ಯಾಶ್ಚ ತದನ್ತರ್ಭೂತಾಸ್ತಸ್ಮಾತ್ ಸ್ವಪಿತರಂ ಮಾಂ ಪರಿತ್ಯಜ್ಯಾಽನ್ಯದೇವತಾ ಯಜನ್ತಃ ಕಥಂ ಮಹಾಫಭಾಜೋ ಭವೇಯುಃ? ಇತ್ಯಾಹೇತ್ಯರ್ತಃ। ‘ವಿಚಿತ್ರಾ ಹಿ ತದವಿತಗತಿಃ’ ಇತಿ ವಚನಾದತಿರಿಕ್ತಾರ್ಥಸಮ್ಭವೇ ‘ಚತರ್ವರ್ಣಾದಿಭ್ಯಃಧ ಸರ್ವಾರ್ಥೇ ಉಪಸಙ್ಖ್ಯಾನಮ್’ (7.1.3, ವಾರ್ತಿಕಮ್) ಇತಿ ನಾಽದರಣೀಯಮಿತಿ ಭಾವೇನಾಽಹ ಚತುರ್ವರ್ಣೇತಿ॥
ವರ್ಣಶ್ಚತ್ವಾರ, ಗುಣಾಸ್ತ್ರಯಃ। ತತ್ಕಥಂ ತೇಷು ಗುಣವಿಭಾಗಃ? ಇತ್ಯತ ಆಹ — ಸಾತ್ವಿಕ ಇತಿ। ‘ರಾಜಸಸ್ಥಾಸಾತ್ವಿಕೇಷಅವೇವಾಯಂ ವಿಭಾಗ ಇತಿ ಜ್ಞಆತ್ವ್ಯಮ್। ನಿರ್ದೇಶಪ್ರಾಥಮ್ಯಾತ್ ಕ್ಷತ್ರಿಯೇ ರಜಸಃ ಸತ್ವಮ್ ಅಧಇಕಮ್। ತತ್ ಏ ವೈಶ್ಯೇ ತಮಸೋ ರಜಃ। ತಚ್ಚ ಸಮಸತ್ವಯುತಮ್। ರಜೋಽಪೇಕ್ಷಯಾ ತಮೋಽದಿಕಂ ಶೂದ್ರ ಇತ್ಯಸೌ ತಾಮಸಃ ಸತ್ವಂ ತು ತಮಸೋಽಪ್ಯಧಿಕಮ್।
First of all ,In advaita we say shivoham,not as “Parvathi pathi”….we say shiva shivoham here shiva means supreme knowledge or supreme consciousnesses….that is it……..that means we are supreme consioussness…not parvathi’s husband
In dvaita hari means “lakshmi ‘s husband,shiva means “parvathi’s husband”…..this is childish…..and bakwas
If you ask a donkey…how is god…it says god is beautiful donkey …similarly madhvacharya says hari as a beautiful sarvothama lakshmi ‘s husband hari……
Dvaita is full of childish , bakwas stories
Please answer for this…..
Your name is Srivatsa…… Means Hari the one who has Lakshmi in his Heart. It seems there can’t be Bakwas concept than this when your parents kept you this name which contains duel enties. According to you it should have been sri only as Vatsa is a Bakwas concept. Can you remove this bakwas from your name and reply…. There cant be bigger bakwas than advaita, which profess things that are diametrically apposite to reality….. It is as good as saying, Mother is bull shit, father is bull shit, wife is bullshit, Only Shivoham…. Shiva has to bless himself, as he is alone……… His world is terrible and lonely….. Can you answer this…… Come back
No, sir..we won’t say hari and lakshmi are bakwas..we say that thier antharyami also is truth..their appearance is mithya or half truth…
advaita is close to reality..by seeing my previous comments you will come to know…..
we won’t say mother ,father is bullshit..we say they are all brahman…which is higher than highest…
Shiva has to bless himself..what is wrong in that?…
his world is not terrible and lonely…his world is anandhamayam….that is sat-chit-ananda mayam….
what you say for this sir?
Hello Srivatsa, it seems you have understood Advaita very well, could you please explain your understanding of advaita like how you elaborated dviata at the beginning of this post discussion? This will help to go step by step starting from why only brahman is “sat” and rest all is “mithya”. Your sentence on “Shiva has to bless himself” is confusing if he is already brahman according to Advaita.
Please go though the following youtube link,which tell about maya of advaita,
and tell your valuable comment…
Sir,
In dvaita’s trividha jeevas…like rajasa,tamasa,and sathvika jeevas are like tv serials….where there will be a good person…who will always think good and do good ,
there will be a bad person…who always think evil and do evil….this is just the ladys watching tv serial story….hence not practical…..
2)In reality there is atleast a good guna in a bad person and a bad guna in a very good person….a evil person can become good one day and good person can become bad one day…..So, we cannot say evil nature or good nature are nature of his own soul…..So,there cannot be rajasa,sathvika ,tamasa jeevas…..
WHAT YOU SAY FOR THIS?
Athman is nirvikaara or nirvikaari….in dvaita
If you accept this athman as nirvikaari ,then you should accept athman is not atomic and it is infinite or brahman…why because
,now one soul which is human,in this janma,if he become elephant in next janma,will his soul stretches to the size of elephant?
similarly if that soul become ant in next janma,will its soul will compress to the size of ant?…..
Similarly,in same janma baby will grow from the small size baby to big man,if size changes…then soul cannot be called as nirvikaari or avikaari…..
for that purpose,advaita adviceses that athman is infinite in size,or covers whole world
or athman is brahman…only because of ignorance…it thinks that it is limited in size……….
what you say for this sir?
1)ok….forget science….let me give local example
Milk….it is one jada,curd is another jada,,,,they have different prakruthika guna…..if milk and curd are different by absolute as said by madhvacharya….milk should never become curd…..
but milk…become curd,ghee,butter milk…etc…here the prakruthika gunas of milk (jada)changes to the prakruthika gunas of ghee,curd etc….hence…there cannot be jada-jada beda by absolute as said by madhvacharya…
2)dress…perishes by time(kumbaagutthade)….here dress looses its prakruthika guna bala (strength)…by time…so strength is not guna of jada…if you go on thinking like that…then there is no jada-jada beda…..
so what is the guna of jada…which makes it different from other jada,,,by absolute?
3)one person having a thum print in one janma,will have another thum print in another janma…so there are not athman’s attribute…. one leave of the same tree…will not be like that…after a day…it will be grown old like big in size,change colour to yellow…etc….so there are not the gunas of jaga…if you go in thinking like that…a jada will be different from it ..self after a period of time….so quality changes with time…
4) similary kama,physical appearance,thinking changes from janma to janma ..so there are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…so prakruthika gunas like rajasa,tamasa,sathvika are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…..
what you say for this sir?
ultimate knowledge is sacchidaanada. sacchidaananda is the personality(swarupa) of brahman….which means …..
sat(always present)….chit(consiousness)……anadnda(bliss) …..when you experience…..this ananda(bliss)…….that means your personality have become equal to sacchidaanada….in that state you have become sacchidaanada swarupi…..or in other words…..you have become sacchidaanada rupi brahman …..which is the ultimate knowledge….as vedas says…..
so….you yourself…..have become sacchidaanada….or YOU HAVE BECOME BRAHMAN ,which is ultimate knowledge….thats why vedas say…..prajgnam brahm….or brahman is knowledge…..and you are brahman…….(aham brahmamaasmi)……this is in breaf……the essence of jgnana yoga….
WHAT YOU SAY FOR THIS?
ॐ विशेषणाच्च ॐ ॥ 12-43 ॥
‘यः सेतुरीजानानामक्षरं ब्रह्म तत्परम्’ इति ।
‘पृथग् वक्तुं गुणास्तस्य न शक्यन्तेऽमितत्वतः ।
यतोऽतो ब्रह्मशब्देन सर्वेषां ग्रहणं भवेत् ॥
एतस्माद्ब्रह्मशब्दोऽयं विष्णोरेव विशेषणम् ।
अमिता हि गुणा यस्मान्नान्येषां तमृते विभुम्’ ॥ इति पाद्मे ।
न च जीवे समन्वयोऽभिधीयते ।
‘सत्य आत्मा सत्यो जीवः सत्यं भिदा सत्यं भिदा सत्यं भिदा मैवारुवण्यो मैवारुवण्यो मैवारुवण्यः’ इति भाल्लवेयश्रुतिः ।
‘आत्मा हि परमः स्वतन्त्रोऽधिगुणो ऽऽल्पशक्तिरस्वातन्त्रोऽवरः’
इति च भाल्लवेयश्रुतिः ।
‘यथेश्वरस्य जीवस्य भेदः सत्यो विनिश्चयात् ।
एवमेव हि मे वाचं सत्यां कर्तुमिहार्हसि’ ॥
‘यथेश्वरश्च जीवश्च सत्यभेदौ परस्परम् ।
तेन सत्येन मां देवास्त्रायन्तु सहकेशवाः ॥’
इत्यदेर्नासत्यो भेदः ॥ 12 ॥
I have a question about madwa philosophy
1) for madwas there are 5 bedas
*)jada-jada
*)jiva -jiva
*)jiva-iswara
*)jiswara-jada and jiva-jada
—————————————…
BUT TODAYS SCIENCE HAVE PROVED THAT THERE IS NO JADA-JADA BEDA…..i:e according to madhvaacharya ,gold can never become silver….but todays science have proved that by changing electronics configuration we can change gold to silver….WHICH ACCORDING TO MADHVAACHARYA IMPOSSIBLE !!!!!!!…because nothing,or jada loose their prakruthika guna according to madhvacharya,….
2)jiva-jiva beda:
accoring to dvaita each jiva is suguna and his prakrutika gunas are his own gunas.
BUT ACCORDING TO ME PRAKRUTHIKA GUNAS ARE NOT OF ATHMAS AND IS SUPER IMPOSED ON ATHMA,BY READING MY FOLLOWING COMMENTS U PEOPLE COME TO KNOW……..
1)me myself, i am human i see another human in kama,but if i become dog in next janma,i see dog with kama…..so prakruthika guna kama is not atmans guna
2) bhudhi:
now when we are human we have high level of bhudhi,but if i become dog in next janma we have bhudhi of the level of dog,so budhi is not atmas guna
if u go on thinking like that u will come to know that ,these gunas atman got from MAYA of jagath..and is not atmans guna ….so atman is nirgua and jagath is maya…………so madwaacharya’s jath is truth and 5 bedas are false…….
CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?
PraNam Srivatasa Jada Jada Bheda is proved by science. You can refer to Periodic table which details 103 three elements ( element is an independent unit of matter which cannot be split up further because it contains only one kind of matter ) They have different Atomic numbers, Electron configuration, and special chemical properties. There may the some cases where you can disturb electron configuration to change its property. However, science has never dissapproved the existence of 103 independent elements. Otherwise Scientific fraternity could have said only one element instead of 103 elements. Hence Jada Jada Bheda is proved beyond doubt by science itself.
Jiva Jiva Bheda is well settled in Vedas and Brahma Sutra. Vedas are to be interpreted by taking Brahma Sutra as base. All Satvik Puranas and Pancharatra are PramaNas. “Sarve Vedah Yat Padamaamananthi” All veda vaakyas are to be interpreted in totality and amicably to come to conclusion. Bhagavad Geetha is sarva Shastraartha Sangraha. It clearly spells out the Bheda by saying that Jeevas are broadly grouped as Saatviks, Raajasaas and Tamasiks. Each jiva has swaroopa Guna like that. Accordingly, they have Ling Deha. They are processed in this world to shed the Ling Deh and then finally they will experience their inherent, satvik, rajasik or Tamo Guna of their nature. Number of such GuNas and Abundance of them, vary with Jiva to Jiva. These Gunas and their potential along with their Ling Deha is eternal- Anaadi. Once they shed the Ling deh (which is anadi) they will experience their true self, either in Mukti(Satviks), Rajasas(Santhanik type loka) and Tamas ( Tamasiks). Each jiva gets its destiny and experience bliss/sorrow according to their innate nature. Every one from this world will not get experience the same Ananda. It depends on their innate nature. Praktruhtika Guna what you mentioned is a fusion of coating on Swaroopa deha, which again is in accordance with the nature of Jiva. Once this Prakruthika Guna(linga Deha) is shed, one will experience the true self This linga deha is not super imposed as claimed. It is anadi as Jiva is. Aatma is Nirguna in limited sense. i.e. Atma’s swaroop is nothing to do with Prakritik GuNa. Prakritik GuNa Deha i.e. Linga Deha is shed ultimately.
If Jagat is Mithya, ever our experience in this world becomes unreal. Unreal act is just a farce, as it cannot give an real benefits. As the world is real, it give real benefits of shedding ling deh.
If you still have further questions/enquiry you can come back on this. I suggest you to read.Sarva Shastraartha sangraha ( which clarifies all your points) in the Menu under Sripadaraja of this Blog
Regards
Refer Quantum Physics then all will understand the TRUTH
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